What do you think President Barack Obama’s science legacy will be?
It’s too soon to tell, but he is certainly a scientifically literate person. He understands the value of science in our culture and, more importantly, for our civilisation.
One of my key memories of . He said the US would go to Mars – and that he wanted to do it by the mid-2030s. I found it curious that he was promising something that would happen under the watch of a later president, under a budget not yet established. That speech cemented for me that, if we are going to go to Mars, or into space in a big way, then we need to elect people who will honour that promise.
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It’s now seven years since Obama’s pledge to take the US to Mars. Can you see it happening?
We won’t go because we consider ourselves explorers or discoverers – if that were the sole inspiration, we would have gone there 10 years after we landed on the moon, simply as a result of the natural trajectory of our curiosity. Sometimes people forget that it was the cold war that fuelled the Apollo programme. My read of history tells me we’ll only go to Mars if we think it is in the interest of national security, or because we think we can somehow get rich by doing so. NASA and tax money would lead the way. But if there is no business model, it’s just not going to happen.
It could end up a vanity project, though. Maybe Bill Gates, Elon Musk and Richard Branson will pool their billions to send people to Mars as a one-off.
Would you go to Mars, if asked?
Sure, but first I’d wait for the person who designed the Mars rocket to send their mother and bring her back safely. Then I’d be good for the trip. And if I’m going to go into space, I’d want a proper destination such as Mars. Right now, all we’re doing is driving around the block in low Earth orbit, .
You recently created a stir when you tweeted, “When I meet President Trump, I may first grab his crotch – to get his attention – then discuss science with him”…
I actually deleted that Twitter post: it wasn’t my intent to create such an online maelstrom. I thought it was funny but, on reflection, I realised it was unnecessary. However, I would invite President-elect Trump to discuss why science literacy is so important. Many people think it is based on a body of knowledge, something you can just spout off on command. And while that is an aspect of it – you should know what a DNA molecule is or how a combustion engine works – what’s more important is a capacity for curiosity. This is also a crucial aspect of good leadership because you can consider novel problems, think about them analytically and make decisions accordingly. That mindset works towards the best interests of a country – or the world if that’s your priority – particularly if you wield political power.
Many scientists were alarmed by Donald Trump’s election. How do you think it will affect the pursuit of science?
There have not been enough formal statements about science policy to judge whether Trump will be good, bad or neutral for the progress of science. But, curiously, this election was not about science and the issues that our country and planet are facing. It was more about the personalities and characters of the candidates. I would have thought that at least some fraction of media time would have been dedicated to issues like climate change or clean energy, especially since policies, including science policies, could affect millions of people. There was so little of that kind of discussion.
But it doesn’t bode well that Trump’s nominated cabinet is crowded with climate change deniers, including Scott Pruitt as head of the Environmental Protection Agency.
żěè¶ĚĘÓƵs are understandably worried about key appointments. But if controversial cabinet nominees are approved by the Senate, the issue isn’t just with the president – it is also with our fellow citizens who voted for members of Congress who may not be working in the best interests of our country’s health, wealth and security. It will be a sign that we are missing some pieces in our educational system. If anyone actually believes that climate change is a hoax perpetuated by the Chinese – something Trump tweeted – then they don’t understand what science is or how it works.
How do you feel about the future?
There are reasons to be optimistic. People have more access to science than ever before, not only via the internet but also increasingly through pop culture: there are so many TV shows that have young scientists applying their knowledge and their moxie to solve crimes and other problems. I’d say this move towards science is largely among people 35 years of age or younger. They’re not yet old enough to be the CEOs of corporations or to run the country, but when they are, we will see a huge shift in the nation’s priorities towards valuing science, math and engineering as a means to improve our country’s well-being.
“All we’re doing is driving around the block in low Earth orbit”
I see science literacy as a kind of vaccine, an inoculation against the kind of people who would otherwise exploit human ignorance about how nature works.
You’ve said that a “cosmic” perspective is important when considering politics and science. What does that mean?
When you learn how big the universe is, how old the universe is, what the contents of the universe are, you realise how fleeting our presence on Earth really is. It helps you refocus, gives you a new point of view on your problems. If you look at Earth from space, you realise it is small and frail. And while I don’t want to make light of the political and cultural unrest that affects so many people day to day, if we could somehow instil the cosmic perspective in our politicians, it could make the world a different place almost overnight. This is why you don’t find astrophysicists leading armies into battle. We have a cosmic perspective that says, “The universe is big, we’re small. Let’s figure this out in a way where we aren’t doing damage to the very thing that sustains our lives.”
One last thing: I promised my mother I’d ask you about Pluto. She’s still annoyed it isn’t a planet any more. Any words of comfort?
Here’s the thing. If Earth was a regular sized car, Pluto would be like a toy car. Even our moon is three times the volume of Pluto. It wasn’t so much that Pluto was demoted, it should never have earned its planetary status in the first place. Sorry, mom.
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Neil deGrasse Tyson heads the Hayden Planetarium in New York City, hosts the StarTalk radio show and StarTalk TV series (National Geographic channel), and is co-author of Welcome to the Universe: An astrophysical tour (Princeton University Press)
This article appeared in print under the headline “Of presidents and planets”
